One argument I have heard against Christianity, and monotheism in general, is that god cannot be all good, all knowing, and all powerful. Not all at once. The argument is that such a god wouldn't allow evil in this world. What are your thoughts/arguements?
I mostly agree with the idea of a "Greater good" thoedicy.
It says that God allows evil because it leads to a greater outcome that couldn't be achieved without it. Evil isn't pointless, it serves a purpose in a larger plan we may not fully see.
Some good things can only come about through hardship. Forgiveness requires a wrong to be committed. Bravery requires danger. Comion requires someone in need. Without evil, these higher goods simply couldn't exist. So God permits evil because a world containing these greater goods is better than one without them.
There's also the matter of perspective. If God is all-knowing and we're not, then it makes sense that we wouldn't be able to see the full picture. We're like characters in a story who only see their own chapter and can't understand why the author wrote in a tragedy. From our limited vantage point, a specific suffering might look pointless or cruel, but that doesn't mean it is. A finite mind simply can't trace how every event connects to every other event across all of history, let alone into an eternal outcome. So the claim that some evil serves a greater good isn't something we could confirm or deny from where we stand. We just don't have the view from above.
God allows free will, which means humans have free will which also means that people are able to choose evil, but also suffering can leade to courage or personal growth. Whats harder to argue is natural suffering, since cancer and earthquakes (etc) arent caused by human choices. You could also argue that humans dont have enough knowledge as to allow suffering even if there is an afterlife, but we cant really test that.
- so basically, we dont know enough about god as to find out why he allows it
This is one of the reasons i dont argue about religion, There are so many, with many versions, from different places, narrated by different people, possibly tampered with over the years, and couldve been mistranslated. Theres really never one true answer about anything for religion, just gotta choose one and ball
I truly try to believe this, but it is quite difficult sometimes. God loves you, God loves us, God loves everyone, no matter what they have done. May we all gain his wisdom and mercy.
No. Not only would it be morally wrong, it would force normal workers to compete with people who don't get paid and create perverse incentives to keep prisoners in jail longer.
Man should not wish for easy lives free of turbulence, but the strength and wisdom to overcome any turbulence that may present itself. The good isn’t so special without the contrast of the bad. Sunny days wouldn’t be so special if it wasn’t for rain. Joy wouldn’t feel so good if it wasn’t for pain.
As President JFK once said, “Do not pray for easy lives, my friends. Pray to become stronger men.”
I see that you are pointing at something old and true: meaning is born from contrast. A life without struggle wouldn't be a paradise; it would be a flatline. We don't actually want ease. We want earned peace.
But I'd push it one step further. It's not just that hardship makes joy sweeter by comparison. It's that hardship is where we become.
Strength isn't something you receive before the storm. It's forged in the storm. Wisdom isn't granted in advance. It's distilled from every time you failed to have it.
So the turbulence isn't the obstacle to the good life. It is the good life, wearing a disguise.
The only real question is whether you meet it as a victim or as a student.
I'm not American, so I'm looking at this from the outside. The Constitution itself is a remarkable document. What Americans live under today is not really it. It's been stretched and hollowed out while the text sits there like a museum piece.
The original design was tight. Enumerated powers. Separation of powers. Limited federal government. States as the primary unit. Power was meant to be split, starved, and bound.
But the commerce clause became a blank check for federal control. The general welfare clause became a loophole for endless spending. The necessary and proper clause swallowed the rest of the list. Executive power grew beyond recognition. Agencies write rules without anyone electing them. Wars happen without declarations. The states lost their voice when the Senate became popularly elected.
So the structure is still on paper. The parchment is intact. But the thing it was designed to do, limit federal power, has been undone. Not by amendment, which needs consent. By interpretation, precedent, and habit.
Coming from Italy, I recognize the pattern. We know something about beautiful constitutions while power quietly flows elsewhere. . .
I mean yeah, but no. The constitution, while impressive in its original form, was always the product of contention between states and federal authority.
I’m no expert, but I’m pretty sure the increase in number of states over the nineteenth century and a growing “American Identity” (see manifest destiny) strengthened the national and thus federal side. With the civil war, the nation became even more focused on unity and top down government. Not that that’s a good thing, but just that the common folk also thought this.
There’s also the simple fact that a larger nation needs more oversight. The thirteen original states did not need managerial oversight. But withought a strong federal government California and New York simply aren’t connected.
Also, just a side note, why is federal power bad? The process you described was simultaneous with growing enfranchisement and equity. Yes, government beauracracy is not directed by the public, but it’s difficult to imagine a system where it is. And your mentions of Executive overreach and undeclared wars are wholly asynchronous with the rest of your argument, the former dating to WWI (I think) and the latter to the 1970s.
Fair points, and you're right that the drift wasn't purely top-down. The Civil War, westward expansion, and a growing sense of national identity all pushed toward centralization, and plenty of ordinary people wanted that. It wasn't just elites hijacking a system. It was also a population deciding it preferred unity to local autonomy. That's a real thing, and I shouldn't pretend otherwise.
But I'd separate two questions. One is why it happened. The other is whethertheresultstillmatchesthedesign. On the first, I agree with you. On the second, I still think the answer is no.
"why is federal power bad?" It isn't, inherently. Some things need coordination. But that's not the point. The point is that the system was built on a specific theory: power should stay close to the people it governs, and the federal government should do only what it must. When that flips, when the default becomes "Washington decides unless states object," the burden of proof has quietly reversed. That's a structural change, not just a growth in size.
And on "your mentions of Executive overreach and undeclared wars are wholly asynchronous with the rest of your argument," that's fair. Executive overreach and undeclared wars didn't happen in 1789. But the mechanisms that allowed them were there from the start, waiting to be used. The point isn't that the founders did it. The point is that nothing stopped it. A constitution that can't prevent the thing it was written to prevent, even slowly, has a problem.
"A larger nation needs more oversight." Maybe. But oversight and control aren't the same thing. California and New York don't need Washington to be connected. They need roads, courts, and a currency. They don't need a single authority deciding how they run their schools, their energy, or their health care. Connection isn't the same as command.
And "the process you described was simultaneous with growing enfranchisement and equity." True. But two things growing at once doesn't mean one caused the other. You can expand who votes while also concentrating where power sits. Those can move in opposite directions, and often do.
I think that the founding fathers did the best they could possibly have done with the knowledge and resources of the time. They could not have predicted two world wars, the internet, or all of the shit in between. They nearly had a perfect government.
If you’re not gonna be your biggest er, who will? If everyone around you is telling you you’re great but you don’t believe it, it all means nothing. But if you believe you’re great, nothing anyone tells you will matter.
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One argument I have heard against Christianity, and monotheism in general, is that god cannot be all good, all knowing, and all powerful. Not all at once. The argument is that such a god wouldn't allow evil in this world. What are your thoughts/arguements?
Where there is light, there is darkness. There’s no such thing as good without the contrasting example of bad.
I've seen this question a lot before ngl.
I mostly agree with the idea of a "Greater good" thoedicy.
It says that God allows evil because it leads to a greater outcome that couldn't be achieved without it. Evil isn't pointless, it serves a purpose in a larger plan we may not fully see.
There's also the matter of perspective. If God is all-knowing and we're not, then it makes sense that we wouldn't be able to see the full picture. We're like characters in a story who only see their own chapter and can't understand why the author wrote in a tragedy. From our limited vantage point, a specific suffering might look pointless or cruel, but that doesn't mean it is. A finite mind simply can't trace how every event connects to every other event across all of history, let alone into an eternal outcome. So the claim that some evil serves a greater good isn't something we could confirm or deny from where we stand. We just don't have the view from above.
Damn, you dont write Ao3 by any chance, right?
Ah ah, I was thinking about becoming one. But right now I'm just a bookworm.
I miss bookworm.. You hear
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The correct path, But you should take the feds advice and do writing honestly, had some solid points in there
I probably will, thank you Jager.
Zeraora go write a fucking book already god damn, infinite money glitch right there. genuine gem on my screen for free
God allows free will, which means humans have free will which also means that people are able to choose evil, but also suffering can leade to courage or personal growth. Whats harder to argue is natural suffering, since cancer and earthquakes (etc) arent caused by human choices. You could also argue that humans dont have enough knowledge as to allow suffering even if there is an afterlife, but we cant really test that.
- so basically, we dont know enough about god as to find out why he allows it
lowkey if we take the story of creation literally
Humans would lowkey just be AI to him
so all the shit he did in the old testament to him literally would just be doing the equlivant of doing the same thing to a chat bot
he's literally an entity beyond this universe holding him to the same morality as a human is stupid
This is one of the reasons i dont argue about religion, There are so many, with many versions, from different places, narrated by different people, possibly tampered with over the years, and couldve been mistranslated. Theres really never one true answer about anything for religion, just gotta choose one and ball
you know gnostism has an answer for this
I must say I am especially interested in your answer, Zeraora. Not to put you on the spot or anything.
Jager already explained one of my view points, so I had to expand on other possible answer :)
Young punks takin' shots, strippin' down to dirty socks
Music up, gettin' hot, kiss me, gimme all you got
It's pretty obvious that you got a crush (You know)
That magic in your pants, it's makin' me blush (Fo' sho')
We do not have a short time to live, but that we waste much of it. Its essentially resource that we burn out.
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“I’ve got a question for ya. do you think even the worst person can change...? that everybody can be a good person, if they just try?”
-funny bone man
I truly try to believe this, but it is quite difficult sometimes. God loves you, God loves us, God loves everyone, no matter what they have done. May we all gain his wisdom and mercy.
😢
Logged out, mb.
Your good gng knew it was you before I seen this
I always wondered if we look up to someone for they may be the light to our hopeful future of maybe just what we hope to become later in life.
Should the death penalty be replaced with Slavery: Roman edition? (Not racist or anything, so shut up.)
No. Not only would it be morally wrong, it would force normal workers to compete with people who don't get paid and create perverse incentives to keep prisoners in jail longer.
Idk about the death penalty, but I think rapists and people like ova should definitely have to do forced hard labor until they drop.
I don’t know what slavery Roman Edition entails, but nah some people just gotta go
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Man should not wish for easy lives free of turbulence, but the strength and wisdom to overcome any turbulence that may present itself. The good isn’t so special without the contrast of the bad. Sunny days wouldn’t be so special if it wasn’t for rain. Joy wouldn’t feel so good if it wasn’t for pain.
As President JFK once said, “Do not pray for easy lives, my friends. Pray to become stronger men.”
I see that you are pointing at something old and true: meaning is born from contrast. A life without struggle wouldn't be a paradise; it would be a flatline. We don't actually want ease. We want earned peace.
Strength isn't something you receive before the storm. It's forged in the storm. Wisdom isn't granted in advance. It's distilled from every time you failed to have it.
Who are you dude? This shit is wild. Why are you on this site?
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I'm a furry with too much free time and a thirst for knowledge.
Has anyone in history ever thought that they weren't personally living in the proverbial "interesting times"?
”I guess you never know what you’ve got till it’s gone” -Kanye. I’m telling you greenfeld, there’s so much philosophical topics to be found in Kanye
You...know that saying is ancient, right? Kayne didn't coin it.
Kanye said it better
Maybe good isn’t special without the bad, but it’s still good. I don’t like Elden Ring because Yandere simulator exists. I enjoy it on its own merit.
“Those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future.”
"We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard." Favorite JFK quote ever. You make a fantastic point. Love it.
Opinions on the US Constitution? Was it good, bad, in between? I love hearing your guys' thoughts.
I mean yeah, but no. The constitution, while impressive in its original form, was always the product of contention between states and federal authority.
I’m no expert, but I’m pretty sure the increase in number of states over the nineteenth century and a growing “American Identity” (see manifest destiny) strengthened the national and thus federal side. With the civil war, the nation became even more focused on unity and top down government. Not that that’s a good thing, but just that the common folk also thought this.
There’s also the simple fact that a larger nation needs more oversight. The thirteen original states did not need managerial oversight. But withought a strong federal government California and New York simply aren’t connected.
Also, just a side note, why is federal power bad? The process you described was simultaneous with growing enfranchisement and equity. Yes, government beauracracy is not directed by the public, but it’s difficult to imagine a system where it is. And your mentions of Executive overreach and undeclared wars are wholly asynchronous with the rest of your argument, the former dating to WWI (I think) and the latter to the 1970s.
image_2026-03-25_231639901.webp
"Yeah, what he said"
I think that the founding fathers did the best they could possibly have done with the knowledge and resources of the time. They could not have predicted two world wars, the internet, or all of the shit in between. They nearly had a perfect government.
They have a constitution? Well... They should work on that..
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Wdym?
If you’re not gonna be your biggest er, who will? If everyone around you is telling you you’re great but you don’t believe it, it all means nothing. But if you believe you’re great, nothing anyone tells you will matter.
be like Kanye
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